Prayers for Pope Francis, the Church

Discussion in 'General discussion' started by andree, Sep 25, 2017.

  1. andree

    andree Well-Known Member

    I don't usually get into stories about the drama at the Vatican, but these two recent stories have grabbed my attention: the filial correction of Pope Francis and the declarations in the press by Libero Milone, the Vatican's ex chief accountant. I read about both stories in Robert Moynihan's letters, which I know are balanced and totally in communion with Pope France.

    The fact that the filial correction was released at midnight on September 24th also had an impact on me because the announcement follows that 'great sign in the sky' on the 23rd, which has been talked about all over the internet for months now.

    It seems like things are getting more serious and lines are getting drawn. Spiritual divisions can only continue to weaken the Church, and so I just wanted to invite forum members to remember our Pope in prayers, sacrifices and in our prayer groups too.
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2017
  2. David

    David Well-Known Member

    Yes, this latest attack on Pope Francis (the 'filial correction') is saddening to see. But I don't see it as very significant apart from bringing out into the open those who think they know better than the Pope. The editors of the big anti-Francis websites are on the list which speaks volumes:

    Here is a report of the 'correction' which puts its significance into some proportion:

    Banker Gotti Tedeschi (and 61 people) accuse the Pope of 7 heresies

    The “Formal correction” on Amoris laetitia has been released: no cardinal or bishop in communion with Rome has signed it. Former IOR president and anti-Francis blog managers among the 62 signatories

    At midnight on 23 September 2017, the "formal correction” to Pope Bergoglio for the alleged errors contained in the post-synodal exhortation Amoris laetitia was jointly published on several blogs and online newspapaers tied to the the anti-Francis cabal. But surprisingly, the document, which according to the publishers was handed over to Francis on August 11, no cardinal has signed the document. The formal correction lacks the signature of the archbishop emeritus of Bologna Carlo Caffarra, who died on 6 September and in truth, had never wanted to call it a "correction” to the Pope. American cardinal Raymond Leo Burke, the first to use this expression, (which by way has no serious historical-canonistic grounds), didn’t sign the document nor did Walter Brandenmuller. None of the bishop in communion with Rome, not even the auxiliary of Astana Athanasius Schneider, the most mediatically exposed in criticism appear at the bottom of the document. The only episcopal signature is that of the superior of the Fraternity of Saint Pius X, Bernard Fellay.

    The "formal correction” presented in the form of a "filial correction”, was signed by 62 people (initially they were 40, the others were added more recently) and released in the United States by the ultra-conservative Rorate caeli website, while in Italy it was released by Sandro Magister's blog, Nuova Bussola Quotidiana directed by Riccardo Cascioli and by Professor Roberto De Mattei's Roman correspondence website, the latest appeaing among the 62 signatories.

    The authors of the document claim, “By these words, deeds, and omissions, and by some passages of the document Amoris laetitia, Your Holiness has upheld, directly or indirectly, and, with what degree of awareness we do not seek to judge, both by public office and by private act propagated in the Church the following false and heretical propositions:

    1. A justified person has not the strength with God’s grace to carry out the objective demands of the divine law, as though any of the commandments of God are impossible for the justified; or as meaning that God’s grace, when it produces justification in an individual, does not invariably and of its nature produce conversion from all serious sin, or is not sufficient for conversion from all serious sin.'

    2. Christians who have obtained a civil divorce from the spouse to whom they are validly married and have contracted a civil marriage with some other person during the lifetime of their spouse, who live more uxorio with their civil partner, and who choose to remain in this state with full knowledge of the nature of their act and full consent of the will to that act, are not necessarily in a state of mortal sin, and can receive sanctifying grace and grow in charity.'

    3. A Christian believer can have full knowledge of a divine law and voluntarily choose to break it in a serious matter, but not be in a state of mortal sin as a result of this action.

    4. A person is able, while he obeys a divine prohibition, to sin against God by that very act of obedience.

    5. Conscience can truly and rightly judge that sexual acts between persons who have contracted a civil marriage with each other, although one or both of them is sacramentally married to another person, can sometimes be morally right or requested or even commanded by God.

    6. Moral principles and moral truths contained in divine revelation and in the natural law do not include negative prohibitions that absolutely forbid particular kinds of action, because these are always gravely unlawful on account of their object.

    7. Our Lord Jesus Christ wills that the Church abandon her perennial discipline of refusing the Eucharist to the divorced and remarried and of refusing absolution to the divorced and remarried who do not express contrition for their state of life and a firm purpose of amendment with regard to it.

    "These propositions - conclude the signatories - all contradict truths that are divinely revealed, and that Catholics must believe with the assent of divine faith… It is necessary for the good of souls that they be once more condemned by the authority of the Church. In listing these seven propositions we do not intend to give an exhaustive list of all the heresies and errors which an unbiased reader, attempting to read Amoris laetitia in its natural and obvious sense, would plausibly take to be affirmed, suggested or favoured by this document: a letter sent to all the cardinals of the Church and to the Eastern Catholic patriarchs lists 19 such propositions. Rather, we seek to list the propositions which Your Holiness's words, deeds and omissions, as already described, have in effect upheld and propagated, to the great and imminent danger of souls.”

    The document and the list of its supporters is online and translated into six languages: the 7 heresies written in Latin are accompanied by other materials. The most important, and in some ways, closest name to the Vatican world, is that of the banker Ettore Gotti Tedeschi, former president of the Institute for Religion Works (IOR), who was removed from office in 2012. In addition to the name of Fellay there are other signatures of priests, scholars, journalists and bloggers from 20 different nations, directly related to the Lefebvrian and far-right Catholic world.
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2017
  3. andree

    andree Well-Known Member

    I gree with you David about the document bringing those who aren't with Peter into the open. And I realize that there are no cardinals who signed the correction, nor bishops in communion with Rome, but there are two things that popped into my mind upon hearing about this : first, that it was made public at midnight on Sept 24, which is a highly unusual time to make an announcement, and this is the split second after the end of the day when the sign in the sky appeared on the 23rd. Robert Moynihan says "Strong words have now been quite publicly spoken. Battle lines have been drawn..." and I find it rather prophetic that these lines be officialized and made public after the sign appears in the sky.

    The second thing is that a signed document is a big deal in any organization, and to Our Lord also since this is what He is asking his leaders in His Church to do: to issue a decree (a signed document) agreeing to unite the dates of Easter. ("when will they all pass a decree by unanimous vote to celebrate the feast of Easter all in one date? - Message of Dec 21, 1992)

    A signed document is a formal thing, and as Robert Moynihan points out "This is the first time since 1333 -- that is, the first time in nearly 700 years(!) -- that a reigning Pope has been the object of such a formal denunciation for heresy, suggesting how deep the opposition to Francis has become. "

    I hope that the decree that Our Lord asks for will be signed soon, since it will oppose the damage done by the correction. Hopefully leaders can agree to this when the pope goes to Russia.

    Anyway, these events make me see that I'm not doing enough in terms of prayer & penitence for the Pope and the Church, which is actually what prompted my post.

    May Our Lady protect Pope Francis against his enemies.
  4. John

    John Guest

    What sign are you referring to? I saw nothing significant other than the Niburu garbage
  5. andree

    andree Well-Known Member

  6. karnala

    karnala Well-Known Member

    Sounds like "battle lines have been drawn" with the Apocalypse of St John. The Apostle does not go into astronomy, and the "great sign in heaven" he describes concerns the spiritual reality.

    Here is what the Queen of Heaven and Earth herself gives us through Fr. Gobbiego on the date of 30.11.1974:

    d My victory over the Red Dragon has also been announced, over triumphant atheism and seemingly victorious today. I will bear My victory by the triumph of My Immaculate Heart in the world....

    e Do not look for other wonders in the sky, it will be only a miracle! (...) ».
  7. Radhe

    Radhe Well-Known Member

    The woman taken in adultery comes to mind..
    The Samaratin woman by the well who had no less than six husbands...

    Exerpt below- From:

    What We Can Learn From the Woman Caught in Adultery
    9:00AM EDT 3/8/2015 Frank Viola and Mary Demuth
    Is there is such a thing as theological correctness? Not in the sense of sound dogma, but adherence to rigid form and a kind of pharisee, nit picking approach, arguing about words etc...
    It is tricky to negotiate these divisions sometimes as a non theologian but the image of the boat given by Fr Corapi helps .That you can fall out of the boat on the left /liberal side which is tolerance taken to extreme (laxity) and the the right hand side that emphasizes form and (rigidity)
    Adherence to not divine rules but man made traditions like the Pharisees on washing hands and formalism. It seems to me that opposition to unity is more prevalent in this "formal" side to unity.
  8. David

    David Well-Known Member

    Sadly, the current situation with many traditionalists does match the behaviour of the pharisees of Jesus' time. The hardness of heart is particularly visible. Here is an example of their behaviour. Because they have recognized that many of the comments by Francis about rigidity is directed at them, they really now turn virtually everything he does or says as an example of his evil nature! They noticed that Pope Francis does not genuflect or kneel down generally during the Mass or Adoration and so they interpret this as something very sinister which proves their negative view of him. This being confirmed by the fact that there are occasions when he has actually knelt down.

    Happily I have encountered a video of a Mass celebrated in Italy earlier this year, on the feast of the Annunciation, where he knelt down during the 'Et Incarnatus' of the Credo. I have extracted the relevant footage from this video and you can view the result below. It is painfully obvious from this video why Pope Francis cannot kneel or genuflect in services.


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