Consecration of Russia to Our Lady

Discussion in 'General discussion' started by andree, Mar 8, 2017.

  1. andree

    andree Well-Known Member

    I thought I'd post this interesting article about Father Hnilica and his role in helping Pope John Paul II consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. This was done on March 25, 1984 and Fr Hnilina was in the Kremlin on that same day and said mass there, consecrating Russia in communion with the pope.

    http://www.mysticpost.com/2017/03/a...ia-says-consecration-prevented-an-atomic-war/

    In just over two weeks, it will be 33 years since that consecration took place.
     
  2. andree

    andree Well-Known Member

    I thought I would put in this thread links to the most interesting talk that Father Rolf gave about his work in Russia and how this relates to Fatima and to 2017. He mentions a few prophecies, including one from a stigmatic in Italy about a final consecration to be done by Pope Francis (don't know what to make about that; is it done or not?), but the talk is worth listening to:

    Part I


    Part II
     
  3. Radhe

    Radhe Well-Known Member

    andree Thanks so much for that..

    Gosh...What Hope!!! Praise the Lord ...so much that begins to make sense
    2017 is a momentous year
    Pray Hope and Dont worry indeed
     
  4. David

    David Well-Known Member

    Thank you, andree, for posting these videos. The reference to a final 'complete' consecration possibly being done by Pope Francis is rather fascinating, particularly as the Pope travels to Fatima in just two months time!

    [​IMG]

    VATICAN | DEC. 19, 2016

    Pope Francis Will Travel to Fatima in May
    The Vatican confirmed the Holy Father will travel to Portugal in honor of the centenary of the apparitions.

    Elise Harris/CNA/EWTN News

    VATICAN CITY — Though rumors have been floating around for some time, the Vatican confirmed Saturday that Pope Francis will travel to Fatima, Portugal, May 12-13 in honor of the centenary of the apparitions.

    “On the occasion of the centenary of the apparitions of the Blessed Virgin Mary at Cova da Iria, and welcoming the invitation of the republic and of the Portuguese bishops, His Holiness Pope Francis will go on pilgrimage to the Shrine of Our Lady of Fatima May 12-13, 2017.”

    The announcement was made in a Dec. 17 statement from the Vatican. Official statements confirming the dates had already been made over the past few days by both the president of Portugal, Marcelo Rebelo de Sousa, as well as the Fatima shrine itself.

    Of all Marian apparitions, those relating to Our Lady of Fatima are among the most famous. On May 13, 1917, siblings Francisco and Jacinta Marto, who were ages 9 and 7, respectively, and their cousin, 10-year-old Lucia dos Santos, took their sheep to graze near the Portuguese town of Fatima when they saw a figure of a woman dressed in white and holding a rosary.

    After this first appearance, the Virgin Mary then appeared to the children on the 13th of every month from May until October. The message of the Fatima apparitions can be summarized primarily as a call to repentance and prayer.

    In 1930, the Catholic Church proclaimed the supernatural character of the apparitions and a shrine was erected at Fatima. It was visited by Pope Paul VI on May 13, 1967, and later by Pope John Paul II and Benedict XVI.

    St. John Paul II had a particularly strong devotion to Our Lady of Fatima. After a harrowing assassination attempt in 1981, he credited his survival to her miraculous intervention. As a sign of his gratitude, he placed the bullet from the failed assassination in her crown.

    “Pray for the brother who shot me, whom I have sincerely forgiven. United to Christ, as a priest and victim, I offer my sufferings for the Church and the world,” Pope John Paul II said on that occasion.

    Vatican Secretary of State Cardinal Pietro Parolin traveled to Fatima Oct. 11-13, six months before the Pope's own visit, largely as a precursor to the papal trip. His visit, which could indicate what the Pope's schedule might look like, included a stop in Lisbon, where he gave a talk on “The Identity of Europe” at a conference at the Catholic University of Portugal, marking the 50th anniversary of its founding in 2017. He also visited several churches and had dinner with Cardinal Manuel José Macário do Nascimento Clemente, the Roman Catholic patriarch of Lisbon.

    At Fatima, Cardinal Parolin participated in an Oct. 12 blessing of the candles and prayed the Rosary at the Little Chapel of Apparitions before processing to the altar to celebrate a candlelit Mass in front of the Basilica of the Holy Rosary. On Oct. 13, there was a special procession to the basilica with Mass and benediction of the Blessed Sacrament.

    It is likely that the Pope’s visit will look similar that of Cardinal Parolin; however, Francis has previously said he would only go to Fatima.

    In 2013, Pope Francis received the statue of Our Lady of Fatima in St. Peter's Square, inviting those present to meditate on the gaze of Mary.

    “Oh Mary, let us feel your gaze as a Mother,” he said. “Lead us to your Son, as we are not Christians ‘for show,' but who can 'get their hands dirty' to build with your Son, Jesus, his kingdom of love, joy and peace.”

    “How important it is,” he said of Mary’s gaze. “How many things can be said with a look! Affection, encouragement, compassion, love, but also reproach, envy, pride, even hatred.”

    “Often the look says more than words, or says what words cannot or dare not say. Who looks at the Virgin Mary? She looks at all of us, each of us. … She looks at us like a Mother, with tenderness, with mercy, with love, the same way she looked at the Child Jesus, in every moment of his life. … When we are tired, discouraged, overwhelmed by problems, look to Mary.”

    http://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/pope-francis-will-travel-to-fatima-in-may
     
  5. David

    David Well-Known Member

    I have found a very important video clip, recorded in 1992, of Sister Lucia confirming that the Consecration was done in 1984. Additionally there is the testimony of a couple who were told by Sister Lucia herself that the the Consecration was done.

    Here are the two clips. They are taken from a lengthy video which portrays the late Fr Gruner in a negative light.

     
    Last edited: May 13, 2017
  6. David

    David Well-Known Member

    And now I have found a report of the interview taking place with Sister Lucia in the above video:

    Sister Lucia was almost 90 years old at the time of the interview. She was living in the Carmelite Convent of Coimbra for half a century and had conversed with Cardinals Anthony Padiyara of India and Ricardo Vidal of the Phillippines.

    Conversion of Russia

    In the interview granted by Sister Lucia, she was explicit in her allusions about the consecration and conversion of Russia.

    Sister Lucia did not exclude any important facts. When Our Blessed Mother asked the three children to pray for this intention, she did not know what Russia was. "We thought it was a very bad woman." With time Sister Lucia began to understand the cruelty and the dramatic history of the people of Russia.

    She herself outlived communism and witnessed the dissolution of the Soviet block. Could this event be interpreted as a sign of Russia’s conversion? To this question, Sister Lucia refered to the man in Russia who "without knowing it, was God’s instrument for the conversion." - Gorbachov? - Yes.

    The Third Secret.

    Many people associate the apparitions of the Virgin at Fatima with the enigma of the third secret. To the question if the secret had to do with Second Vatican Council, the religious limited her response: "I cannot respond." When she was asked whether the third secret is apocalyptic she clarified: "Our Lady did not say it was in the Book of Revelation." But if she does not want the third secret of Fatima to be known, can the Pope make it known? The sister responded with simplicity that the Pope can reveal it if he wishes, "but I recommend for him not to reveal it. If he decides to, I recommend for him to be very prudent."

    The interview asked if she was still having apparitions of Our Lady. Sister Lucia responded, " How curious . . . . I cannot say."

    Hell-

    The Virgin also spoke about hell, a theme that had been popular before and was now absent. Sister Lucia’s words were very clear: "Hell is a reality. It is a supernatural fire and not physical. It cannot be compared to fire that burns wood or charcoal."
    She offered advice to priests on this topic: "Continue preaching about hell because Our Lord himself spoke about hell, and it is in Sacred Scripture. God does not condemn anyone to hell. God gave men the liberty to choose, and God respects this human liberty."

    Atheism and materialism Sister Lucia recognizes, "atheism is a greater instrument utilized by the devil in our days. It is a grave sin against God that rejects His own existence and allows the practice of a variety of diabolic acts like abortion." As well, she said, "Communism ended, but materialism continues... People should desire more the things of God instead of first desiring the material things."

    Final Message.

    The Cardinals asked her if she wanted to conclude with anything in particular, a message for the world today. She responded: "He who is not with the Pope is not with God; and he who wants to be with God has to be with the Pope."


    http://www.piercedhearts.org/hearts_jesus_mary/apparitions/fatima/fatima_lucia_biography.html
     
  7. David

    David Well-Known Member

    Unfortunately, the video I posted has had to be removed. However, I have since found a transcript of an interview with the man witnessing in the video. He was Dr Frederick Zugibe, a man of some reputation - see http://www.crucifixion-shroud.com/

    Dr Zugibe and his wife were told by Sister Lucia in 2002, regarding the Consecration, that "It was done! The Holy Father willed it. It was done, and you can tell your friends that it was done."

    The full article with the interview with Dr Zugibe is at:

    http://www.ewtn.com/library/issues/zuglucia.htm


     
  8. David

    David Well-Known Member

    Here is the text of Sister Lucia's letter of 1989 where she confirmed that Pope John Paul's 1984 Consecration fulfilled Our Lady's wishes:

    Was the Consecration of the World made as Our Lady had asked?

    On October 31,1942 in a letter (sent to her) from His Holiness Pius XII: They asked me then if it was done as Our Lady had
    asked; I said no, because it lacked the union with all of the bishops of the world.

    After this, Pope Paul VI made it on May 13,1967. They asked me if it was done as Our Lady requested. I answered no, for the
    same reason; it lacked the union with all the bishops of the world. It was made again by Pope John Paul II on May 13, 1982,
    They asked me then if it was done. I said no. It lacked the union with all the bishops of the world. Then, this same
    Supreme Pontiff John Paul II wrote to all the bishops of the world asking them to unite with him and he gave orders for the
    image of Our Lady of Fatima to be taken from the Capelinha and brought to Rome, and on March 25 1984 - publicly and in
    union with all the bishops of the world who wished to unite - made the Consecration as Our Lady requested. They asked me
    then if it was made as Our Lady had asked for it, and I said yes. Since then it is done.

    Why was this demand of God that this consecration be made in union with all the bishops of the world? Because this
    consecration is a call to unity of all Christians - the Mystical Body of Christ - whose head is the Pope, the only true
    representative of Christ on earth, whom the Lord has entrusted the Keys of the Kingdom of Heaven. This union depends on
    the faith in the world, and on love, which is the bond that unites all of us in Christ, as He prayed to the Father: "As
    you, Father, are in me and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you sent me... I in
    them and you in me, that they may become perfected in unity, so that the world may know that you have sent me and have
    loved them, as you have loved me" (Jn 17: 21-23).

    As we see, the union depends on Faith and Charity to be the bond of our union with Christ, whose true representative on
    earth is the Pope.


    (Pathway under the Gaze of Mary - https://www.amazon.com/Pathway-Under-Gaze-Mary-Immaculate/dp/0578158639)

     
  9. davidtlig

    davidtlig Administrator

    This is a very important new video from Carlos Evaristo:

     
  10. karnala

    karnala Well-Known Member

    Its saying: This video is unavailable.
     
  11. davidtlig

    davidtlig Administrator

    Yes karnala, no sooner had I posted the video than it was removed from YouTube.

    Although I cannot be certain of the reason for the removal, it is an example of the forces out there that have been trying to harm the Fatima message since it was first given to the children 100 years ago.

    The producer of the video, Carlos Evaristo, explains in it how much persecution he has had to endure since he interviewed Sister Lucia in the 1990s and published what she said.

    Here is a link of another website that contains much of the information that is included in Mr Evaristo's documentary:

    http://www.motherofallpeoples.com/2005/06/sister-lucia-and-the-third-day-of-the-week-of-fatima/

     
  12. karnala

    karnala Well-Known Member

    I had read about his split from the late Fr Gruner. Thanks for the link as its answered my questions about the remainder of the "Week of Fatima" -
     
  13. davidtlig

    davidtlig Administrator

    I'm pleased to see that the video from Carlos Evaristo which was removed from YouTube has re-appeared:

     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2017
  14. karnala

    karnala Well-Known Member

    Thanks .... I didn't realise how much he was being persecuted. People still don't believe the Consecration's been done, even though all the Churches are opening again in Russia.
     
  15. cadman

    cadman New Member

    According to the mmp messages, JPII's consecration was accepted and Mary promised to shorten the hours of purification because of it, but she still requested it be done explicitly. Perhaps at this point in time (about 30 years since those messages) it might not make much of a difference.

    The first 25min of this podcast has a priest speaking on the subject from 2014.

    https://radiomaria.us/tag/camden-new-jersey/
     
  16. David

    David Well-Known Member

    I think Sister Lucia's 1989 answer on this matter should be considered definitive. I quote Sister Lucia's words from my post above:

    Then, this same Supreme Pontiff John Paul II wrote to all the bishops of the world asking them to unite with him and he gave orders for the
    image of Our Lady of Fatima to be taken from the Capelinha and brought to Rome, and on March 25 1984 - publicly and in
    union with all the bishops of the world who wished to unite - made the Consecration as Our Lady requested. They asked me
    then if it was made as Our Lady had asked for it, and I said yes. Since then it is done.
    You might like to quote, cadman, from Fr Gobbi's messages the part that you feel conflicts with this.

     
  17. cadman

    cadman New Member

    David, here are the quotes from Fr Gobbi's messages. The first was received March 25th, 1984 (the same day Pope John Paul II did the consecration). The second is from May 13th, 1990 (Fatima's first apparition anniversary date).

    The parts in italics I updated from my blue book of the most recent edition for a better reading. I copied the quotes from here: http://www.heartofmaryarabic.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/The-Blue-Book.pdf

    #287 I ask for consecration from everyone
    "Look at the inexpressible moment of the Annunciation by the Archangel Gabriel, sent by God to receive my "Yes" to the fulfilment of His eternal plan of Redemption, and to the great mystery of the Incarnation of the Word in my virginal womb, and then you will understand why I ask you to consecrate yourselves to my Immaculate Heart.

    Yes, I myself made my will known at Fatima, when I appeared in 1917. I asked it many times of my daughter Lucia, who is on earth to fulfil this mission which I entrusted to her. In these years I have insistently asked for it, through the message entrusted to my Movement of Priests. Today I ask it anew, I ask once more for consecration to my Immaculate Heart by all men.

    I ask it, first of all, of Pope John Paul II, the first of my beloved sons, who on the occasion of this feast, preformed the consecration in a solemn manner, after writing to the Bishops of the world to do this in union with him.

    Sadly, the invitation has not been welcomed by all the Bishops. Particular circumstances have not yet allowed the express [explicit] consecration to me of Russia, which I have asked for many times. As I have already told you, this consecration will be made to me, when bloody events are already in train.

    I bless this courageous act of my Pope in his wish to entrust the world and all nations to my Immaculate Heart; I receive it with love and gratitude and, because of it, I promise to intervene to greatly shorten the hours of the purification and to render the trial less severe.

    But I ask for this consecration also from all the Bishops, all Priests, all Religious and all the faithful. This is the hour in which the whole Church must gather together in the secure refuge of my Immaculate Heart!

    Why do I ask for this consecration? ...[etc the message continues.]
    My edition reads "explicit consecration to me of Russia". Here is the second quote from Fr. Gobbi's messages:

    #425 I am Coming Down from Heaven

    "I came down from heaven, seventy-three years ago, in this Cova da Iria, to point out for you the path you should tread in the course of this difficult century of yours. The very painful events which followed have, through their occurrence, given complete fulfillment to the words of my prophecy.

    - Humanity has not accepted my motherly request to return to the Lord along the road of conversion of heart and of life, of prayer and of penance. Thus it has known the terrible years of the second world war, which brought about tens of millions of deaths and vast destruction of populaces and of nations.

    - Russia has not been consecrated to me by the Pope together with all the bishops and thus she has not received the grace of conversion and has spread her errors throughout all parts of the world, provoking wars, violence, bloody revolutions and persecutions of the Church and of the Holy Father.

    ...[etc]​
     
  18. David

    David Well-Known Member

    Thank you for these quotes, in particular that of message 425. For me, the apparent inconsistency between the MMP message 425 and what Sister Lucia said and believed cannot be easily smoothed over. I believe Sister Lucia's 'version' of the situation. I think the MMP quote of message 425 is a similar example to the MMP message 532 which spoke of the accomplishment of the triumph of the immaculate heart of Mary occurring by the year 2000.

    When Vassula was asked, in 1999 about Fr Gobbi's message 532, she felt that the message contained 'a lot of Fr Gobbi' in it. She said that in her experience, the Lord never spoke in terms of specific dates. I have found an interesting web page which deals at some length with message 532 and it contains the following quote which rather 'fits in' with what Vassula had said:

    In hindsight, then, Fr. Gobbi realizes that his interpretation of Our Lady’s words were not precisely what he had originally thought. There is a basic need to be mindful of the fact that, when a mystic receives messages, his or her mission is to convey that message to the world. Our Lady gave Fr. Gobbi this locution, and he dutifully wrote it down. Fr. Gobbi has told me on numerous occasions that Our Lady does not reveal everything to him, but only that which is necessary for him to accomplish his particular mission. Consequently, he cannot always give a full explanation of the interior locutions which he receives, but only his understanding of them based on the knowledge that he has of the messages. It is very important to understand that Fr. Gobbi, as with any mystic, does not have all the details, and thus he too must walk on faith and trust.

    http://ourmotheroftheeucharist.org/uncategorized/1607/

     
  19. andree

    andree Well-Known Member

    I don't know enough about this subject to comment on whether the consecration was made or not. So much ink has been spilled on this subject already and I don't know what to think anymore!

    I'll just say that, for a long time, I would have said that it seemed that it was done - on the surface, that's what things look like with the fruits of religious freedom exploding in Russia along with positive ties between Church & state. Putin's speeches promote traditional values too. On the surface, it all looks very positive for the Russian state going forward doesn't it?

    But now I'm leaning more towards the opposite view after having listened to several speakers who make very convincing arguments that soviet/communist specialists of all walks of life (from KGB agents, scientists, teachers, and clergy too) have infiltrated western structures for decades with the clear plan to bring about a Leninist form of communism in the west, through global totalitarian governance. And this without a shot ever being fired - well, almost no shots fired. At least, not if the population goes along with it all, but if they don't, then civil wars will be triggered to move things along.

    It has bothered me for a long time that communism colapsed and "disappeared" in the USSR while the press and politicians at large supported this feat almost unanimously. Since when does something major like that happen with global support for something that is truly good for the people?

    The speakers that I've found actually say that communism didn't collapse at all - the collapse of the USSR was a work in progress for years through the leaders put in place with full support from the west (Gorbachev, Yeltsin...) . It just morphed into another form which was set to go global and it was very important that the USSR disappear so that it could not be pointed to as a model resembling what was being built in the west. But Russia is going full out with technological advances, crypto currencies....what are they doing differently from the west? I see the Church is front & center there, but are they truly seeing the risks of communism that still exist in the world and in Russia? Unless I'm wrong, the technological advances that are going to be used to fence in the minions in are also being used in Russia.

    Here is one such speaker on the subject of Russia spreading its errors: Christopher Story, whom you can find on youtube. In this talk, he is speaking at Fatima 2000 World Peace Bishop's conference.

    I don't know what to make of Putin yet - I heard Fr Ripperger say in one of his talks that Putin wants the consecration of Russia done. But he is former

    But I think that a consecration of Russia today would be wise and should be done quickly!
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2018
  20. David

    David Well-Known Member

    And here, andree, we find ourselves differing very much on matters associated with Russia.

    You are becoming (or have become) very influenced by the Fatima group that was led by Fr Gruner and is now continued under Christopher Ferrara.

    We know that Sister Lucia was very critical of what Fr Gruner did with his worldwide network of outlets and I would suggest avoiding reading that material that is also highly critical of Pope Francis.

    Russia IS in the process of conversion. The evidence is overwhelming. Of course the state still has structures which are not too changed from Soviet times. Whatever the motivation of Putin, his policies are strongly pro Christian and strongly against almost all the new atheistic beliefs of the West.

    We must thank Our Lady for the conversion of Russia which began in 1984 and has been proceeding strongly ever since. It will continue at an ever increasing pace I believe.

     

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