Beware: 'Dubia' Conference in Rome

Discussion in 'General discussion' started by karnala, Apr 5, 2018.

  1. karnala

    karnala Well-Known Member

    Cardinal Raymond Burke, Bishop Athanasius Schneider, and Cardinal Joseph Zen are among the key speakers at a conference in Rome this Saturday, April 7, aimed at resolving the great confusion in the Church today.

    The conference will be themed “Catholic Church: Where are you heading?,” and is being organized by an Italian association called “The Friends of Cardinal Caffarra.”

    Its subtitle, “Only a blind man can deny that there is great confusion in the Church,” is taken from comments Cardinal Caffarra made in an interview with the Italian newspaper Il Foglio in January 2017.

    A list of speakers and full program for the event were released today.

    The meeting will open with prayer at 2:30 p.m. in the chapel of ‘The Church Village’ conference center in Rome.....

    Finally, a very important moment will take place. The text of the declaration for the whole Church will be presented - it will be the voice of the "baptized and confirmed members of the People of God." The text of the declaration will also be a profession of faith in these doctrinal and moral matters, which are today the subject of controversy.

  2. David

    David Well-Known Member

    I need to come in strongly here. An 'Historic Conference in Rome' ?? Hardly!

    Make no mistake about this. The speakers at this conference are all strongly critical of Pope Francis and his particular papacy. Let me say a few things about the the two websites which Karnala quotes above.

    Firstly 'LifesiteNews'. This was originally a website which focused on matters associated with the protection of the unborn. It has become a website which focuses increasingly on undermining Pope Francis and his leadership. It interprets virtually everything Francis does or says as something bad or negative.

    Secondly, the National Catholic Register is a Catholic newspaper which EWTN bought some years ago. EWTN itself has done wonderful evangelizing work over the years thanks to Mother Angelica's vision and abilities. Mother Angelica is no longer with us and it is very unclear who is now responsible for EWTN's editorial policies. It now broadcasts a weekly news item (Raymond Arroyo - World Over) which generally includes an item featuring two contributors labelled as the 'papal posse' together with Raymond Arroyo. Those three then proceed to 'report' on activity in the Vatican but ALWAYS from a negative standpoint. They present their anti-Francis standpoints in a 'concerned' way suggesting it hurts them to have to disagree with or fail to understand what Pope Francis is doing!

    This anti Francis narrative is spreading. Now the Catholic Herald in the UK is being infected by it and they now often quote from LifesiteNews. For me, there is distinct evidence of opposition to Pope Francis being organized on a world wide basis.

    Let me mention my own recent experiences in this area. I was an active participant of an internet blog called the 'Mother of God forum'. It had a particular focus on private revelation such as Fatima, Garabandal and Medjugorje and had a fairly 'open' approach to contemporary revelations. I found it almost unique in allowing discussion of Vassula and True Life in God. There were plenty of people who would come in an criticize Vassula but the owner allowed discussion of her. Over the years it attracted some quite important contributors but everything changed a few years into the pontificate of Pope Francis. The blog owner became very critical of Pope Francis and started banning members who defended the Pope's actions. Things got worse and worse so that I became the only member who would defend the pope. I was careful not to get into any arguments but continued to make positive contributions regarding the papacy Then, just a week or two ago, following another gentle supportive posting I was banned. The devil had succeeded in turning a faithful Catholic blog into an anti-papal propaganda machine!

    So please folks, beware! The TLIG messages are clear. The following message refers to John Paul II but the message is speaking of all the 'Peters' who represent Christ on earth:

    I am; pray for the renewal of My Church; pray for those souls who oppose Peter, pray for those who are trying to silence Peter; the days now are numbered and My Soul is submerged in sorrow; My Sacred Heart is imbued with bitterness, My Soul is yearning for them to realise their Error;

    those that oppose Peter are opposing My Church, they are opposing My Law, they are opposing Me, their Lord and God; they are condemning Peter-of-My-lambs, thus condemning My Law; blinded by Vanity himself they do not see clear anymore that by condemning Peter they are not following the Law but instead become judges of My Law! O listen to what the Spirit says to the Church! return; come back, beloved one; it is I, the Lord, who have selected Peter, Peter who today bears the name, John Paul II; I am telling you, beloved one, My Sacred Heart has chosen him; come back, reconcile for My sake, beloved; I, the Lord, will forgive your sins and will purify you;

    RETURN! return all of you to Peter for it is I, your God, who has chosen him; it is I who have given him a disciple's tongue, and through Me he is able to reply to the weary; oh, creation! is there no more wisdom left in you? creation! you are failing to appreciate My Fathomless Love I have for you, and yet, I answer to everyone who invokes Me; I am with you when you are in trouble, I am your Refuge;

    June 21, 1988​
  3. karnala

    karnala Well-Known Member

    I apologise if it sounds like I support this conference - which of course, I don't. I thought it sounded historical because of the 'lengths' they are going to, as "the text of the declaration for the whole Church will be presented". I'll change the title so it reflects my objection and concern about this conference. I realise the conference is announced by the 'Dubia' who are against the Pope's Amoris Laetitia.
  4. andree

    andree Well-Known Member

    Thanks for posting about this Karnala, it gives me something else to pray for and offer penitence for. What is truly sad and rather scary is seeing how Christians turn to human actions to resolve problems that need supernatural intervention. What we need is more silence, more rosaries, more adoration, more reparation, more penitence, more humility.....and unity of hearts of course.

    "Only a blind man...."

    Let's pray for more humility in the church so that the veil drops and more can see that we need God to intervene and for that, we need to let Him act!
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2018
  5. andree

    andree Well-Known Member

    Wow, I just found & read Padraig's post about giving you the boot. What a total turn that forum has taken - members aren't allowed to support the pope! Hopefully he changes his mind with you and he has done for others in the past - if you want to go back that is.

    I think that the only safe place to be these days is under Our Lady's mantle.
  6. karnala

    karnala Well-Known Member

    I just read an interesting article which describes this conference very well - Dissenters from Amoris Laetitia ~

    April 7, 2018 Pedro Gabriel

    Apparently, Cardinal Burke has just delivered a speech in Rome about the limits of papal authority. Dissenters from Amoris Laetitia have been looking forward for this conference to get arguments to justify their disobedience… and unfortunately, they got what they wanted, if what is being reported is accurate....

    Apparently, all it takes to justify dissent is to have a well formed conscience. If you have a well formed conscience and you disagree with the Pope, you are free to disobey. Who gets to decide who has a well formed conscience is something that is not addressed, because apparently the limits of papal power are more important than the limits of people who self ascribe to themselves the title of “well formed consciences“....

    All this theological backflip has been grounded, not in any authoritative Church document (besides some snippets from the Holy Bible, interpreted out of context to attack the Pope, a modus operandi resembling evangelical protestants) but on the non-authoritative writings of medieval canonists and an english professor.

    Fortunately, to debunk this, all it takes for me is to republish an article I have already shared, named Sola Traditio. So, I’m transcribing it in full once again:

    Last edited: Apr 11, 2018
  7. David

    David Well-Known Member

    Thank you, karnala, for informing us of this new website - WHERE PETER IS

    I wish I knew about it when I was still trying to defend Pope Francis on the blog I mentioned earlier!

    I think it is worth copying the 'about' page of the site to encourage people to view it:

    This site was conceived by a group of faithful Catholics who have become increasingly concerned about the attacks from within the Church on Pope Francis and his teachings. Over the entirety of his pontificate, he has been accused by radical traditionalists and dogmatic rigorists of deliberately spreading confusion, teaching error, and even being a heretic.

    While the group challenging Francis’ pontificate is relatively small, their ranks include prominent laypeople, priests, bishops, and even cardinals. Many of Francis’ fiercest critics have strong voices in the media: in print, on television, and on the web. In many cases, these critics have anointed themselves as the arbiters of orthodoxy, and have accused those who continue to stand with the pope of holding views that dissent from the teaching of the Church.

    Because Francis’s critics are such a small faction, many of their accusations and assertions have gone unchecked. They complain that their concerns are serious, but they are dismissed and their points are not addressed by those who support the pope.

    The authors at this site have decided to take up their challenge, both by providing links to resources from other sites and by providing original essays that argue in favor of the orthodoxy and faithfulness of the Holy Father. Additionally, we’ll write about the major themes and important topics that surround the Church, especially in light of the pontificate of Pope Francis.

    Where Peter is, there is the Church.
    karnala likes this.
  8. karnala

    karnala Well-Known Member

    It took me some time to find the website, but I'm glad I did - just received an article about Sr Vassa, who is a nun with the traditionalist Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia (ROCOR) and she's defending Pope Francis !!

    Sister Vassa is the closest Eastern Orthodox equivalent to EWTN-founder Mother Angelica. With a zeal for Christ and a genius for media, she proudly wears her habit as an orthodox (and Orthodox) nun. She is popular among Eastern Orthodox and Eastern Catholics alike, and she is quite friendly toward her Eastern Catholic brothers and sisters–especially for a Russian Orthodox traditionalist.


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